http://www.dandavats.com/?p=10198#comment-15545

I posted this:

Dandavat pranam!

Just as some kanistha-adhikaris sometimes use sharp language in an immature way, so some other neophyte devotees (who often feel they are very mature) hide their insecurity behind a veil of “I-know-how-to-present-Krishna-Consiousness-in-amature-and-balanced-way”.

What is actually going on is 2 things:

1. They are afraid of opposition. They feel scared when someone is attacking their insecure false ego. They are not emotionally and mentally strong enough to handle such opposition. They are still conditioned to being victims of other peoples opinions about them, because they still identify themselves too much with their false ego. So to protect their false ego, they create a shield called “mature soft preaching”. They defend this shield by using one-sided quotes and anecdotes of Prabhupada – ignoring the hard evidence for other approaches.

2. They often do not read Prabhupada’s books and letters, listen to his lectures, conversations etc. Instead they tend to read about a lot of other gurus, discuss on the internet, where they also read a lot about all kinds of other things. This keeps them on the neophyte stage

In the name of mature preaching, they often water down the philosophy and often there are very few great results from their preaching. I have seen this often: Senior devotees taking weeks, months and years to challenge and inspire new devotees to move forward. “What can be done in a day they drag on for years.” – Prabhupada says about the mode of ignorance.

So this discussion is usually not really about preaching strategy – it is about psychology. It is about being insecure, being conditioned to live other peoples lives instead of our own devotional lives, it is about not caring enough about Prabhupada’s teachings to actually seriously study them – including Prabhupada’s preaching mood (as heard in his lectures and conversations). When we seriously study Prabhupada THEN we can know how to present Krishna Consiousness according to time, place and circumstances. THEN we can know how and when to use the thunderbolt and when to be strategically lenient with others. This perfection will ONLY be acheived by reading and studying Prabhupada seriously. That will make us mature – nothing else.

Those neophyte devotees who make propaganda against preachers who has the courage to challenge the false ego of others should keep in mind that Krishna does not like to see preachers being offended.

Your servant,

Ajit Krishna Dasa

Ajit Krishna Dasa: Some modern yogis teach only the asanas of yoga, as if by physical exercises one could reach the Absolute Truth Some have slandered yoga by transmogrifying it into a sex cult. Books such as Naked Yoga are not uncommon, and yoga often commingles with erotic massage among groups interested in peddling illicit sex as a form of “divine love.” Ironically, the first principles of yoga—as described in the Yoga-sutra and Bhagavad-gita—are celibacy and sense control. This film is obviously trying to drag yoga down to the animal level! Have you ever seen a pig doing yoga? Well, these so called yogis are going to become something like pigs in their next life. Or actually most likely trees. The funny thing is that the yoga tradition itself condems this sort of animalistic activity and proclaims that people who like being seen naked will take birth as trees, because trees are standing naked for all to se for so many years. Such films are simply destroying the credibility of actual yoga and are nothing but bogus and cheating.

Debater 1: , this is too much….!!! Relax Hara Krishna people. Smile to the world and live in the NOW. The world is changing, you can’t live with closed eyes and only follow the old scripts. Yes you can, and it’s not that I don’t respect them, but there are so much more in the world to see and ad knowledge…. To let go of boundries is one of the biggest thing there is to learn, and also to accept other people point of view. I maybe don’t live from all this rouls and limited way of see things. This is the modern world, my friends. Not anything else!! And that is my point of view of it.I don’t go deeper into it then that. Not valueif it is right or wrong. Just see it as it is! I like the free world, where everything is oneness and nothing is to judge. You create your world out of your point of views, and for me it’s okay. I just don’t share the same as you! Love ♥

Ajit Krishna Dasa: Which now are we supposed to live in – the material now or the spiritual now? Animals are good at living in the now, but it is only the material now. Animals can’t discuss spiritual philosophy and make a program to spread spirituality in the world. So humans who want to drag yoga down to the animal level will end up as animals and live in the material, bodily now. The fact that they are doing it show they are already living in the material now and don’t know anything about the spiritual now. To say something is outdated because it’s old is a logical fallacy. There’s a lot of old, universal wisdom and also a lot of modern nonsense. The real yoga system was handed down from God Himself, but has become degraded – and this is the buttom. These so called yogis are animals in human form. The Vedas call them dvipa-pashu meaning two-legged animals. Letting go of boundries? What is next? Should we accept pedophile and zoophile films with yoga asanas? Should we not see child molesters as criminals, but just see them “as they are”? Would you also claim there’s nothing to be judged about them? I hope not! The so called modern world is a world of moral degeneration and hypocrisy. In addition: “Oneness” is the no. 1 enemy of love.

Debater 2: I see nothing wrong in celebrating the beauty of the female body like this video does. Its not sexual, not degrading in any way and btw.. If they didnt respect their bodies, theyd hardly be as fit as they are.. So if that makes you come back as a pig in youre next life, what does people only focusing on spirituality come back as, purple candles? Id take the pig any day then, atleast they live life.

Ajit Krishna Dasa: You have my blessings to become a pig in your next life. Pigs love to eat stool and have sex with their sisters, mothers and daughters. If that the kind of freedom you like, then go ahead and do it. In the meantime I will focus on raising my consciousness to the spiritual level, so that I can altogether leaving the physical plane and enter the pure, transcendendal plane. Neither the female nor the male body is beautiful. The so called beauty is less than one milimeter deep. If you cut just one milimeter away from all the skin of the most beautiful woman, you will be disgusted. All bodies are skin bags filled with nails, hair, mucus, stool, urine, blood, sweat, snot, earwax, bones, marrow, flesh, fat, stomach acid, semen/menstruation fluids etc. There is nothing beautiful in that. I guess you wouldn’t jump into a swimming pool filled with these substances? But you love it when it is packed up nicely in a sweaty skin bag with hairs and nails? This is called ILLUSION. The beauty of the body is nothing but a supreme illusion. Think about it. Such a disgusting thing and people love it so much that during sex they will lick the most dirty places on the body – the body’s sewer system where stool and urine comes out. This is REALl illusion and you just reavealed that you are one of the victims of that illusion. The yoga tradition consistently warns us that the body is a temporary stool factory. That it is a cancer tumor around the pure soul. Why worshop a cancer tumor? That is disgusting! I advise you to get out of your illusion, but if not, then you are free to become a pig in your next life. Then you can run around naked and worship the body of your sister, mother and daughter.

Debater 1:  It’s amazing how much you need to promote your believe here, and to tell us what is right for you. I don’t need to tell you what I do or not do to live in this world with my spiriallity. Why make other people wrong for what they are because they don’t chose to live as you do. We are all differient from each other, and I dodn’t put this vidio on my fb so it can be used for justifying the believe or the life we chose to have in this life. Nobody try to make you wrong or make themself right here. It’s just in the matter of openness to accept other people and that they also are a light in this world, no matter what. Bacause I live differently then you, it doen’s mean that I don’t know the vedas or Surtras, and know about karma and illusion, it just mean that I chose to live in another way then you. I have lived limited (for me it felt limited) in the yoga tradition, and have also felt offended when other poeple had another opinion or believe about it. But we are free to have what opinion about things as we have, all of us!! I feel that you two is so much in your believe, that there aren’t space for other then you and that in your world. And that is really sad, bacause when I met you Sanatani-devi Dasi, I know you were so differient. Then I felt no judgements from you at all, but now you live so much form det “book” or the scrips, that there aren’t room for anything else. I respect you and your believe, don’t make it wrong, I just don’t understand why it’s so important for you to justify it here on fb, and so much.

Debater 2: Id rather be a happy, caring, courious and fun pig, living and loving life (and other pigs – family included) anyday, oh infinitly wise master of the spirit Ajit.. If all your knowledge leads you to behave and talk as you do here.. Agressive, mislead and (I have to say) quite stupid..

Ajit Krishna Dasa: Your problem is that you don’t like the truth. You can never be happy, caring, curious, funny, loving as a stool eating pig. Your problem is that you can’t accept truth. You want to live in illusion and violate the principles of yoga. In the yoga tradition the use of sharp words to cut the hard knot of material attachment is accepted as the highest form of love. So I’m actually saying this as your best friend. I’m a better friend to you, then any other person trying to make enjoy this temporary material body made of stool and urine. Our duty is to inform you about the truth of yoga. Yoga is a divine path given by God to bring people back to Him. Therefore, if we see people make yoga into something material and animalistic it is our duty to defend yoga and present it in its pure form. You may like it or not like it.

Debater 1: Keep on going…. Can you please close this subject now!! Thank you!

—

Seems like debater 1 and 2 ran out of arguments and therefore ran out of the debate!

Anyway I know the people of Tehran they like hatha yoga very much. I understand Parivrajakacarya Swami is teaching a course combining both hatha and bhakti yoga to attract the people. This is a very good idea. Somehow or other inject the bhakti yoga. That will save them from the degradations of sense gratification.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Atreya Rsi:  –  Bombay 4 December, 1974

Prabhupada: Two things. Visaya chariya. Material motive should be
given up, and everything should be engaged for Krsna’s…, whatever
favorable. Then it will… [break] … Rsi is doing nice. Who is that
Maharaja?

Tamala Krsna: Parivrajakacarya Swami.

Prabhupada: Very nice. Good combination.

Tamala Krsna: He’s been there now, Parivrajakacarya Swami, he’s been
there now for, I think, two or three years now. He’s worked pretty
faithfully there. He tricks them. In the guise of teaching a little
hatha-yoga, then he teaches bhakti.

Prabhupada: That is preaching.

Brahmananda: You also tricked us, Srila Prabhupada, when you came to
New York. You were just chanting Hare Krsna and speaking on
Bhagavad-gita, and we came and we listened, and then you took
everything. You took our lives, took all of our money… (devotees
chuckle) We left our families.

Prabhupada: There is a Bengali word, “Enter like a needle and come out
like a plow.” (laughter)

Hari-sauri: “Enter like a needle and come out like a plow.”

Prabhupada: If you say in the beginning, “I am a plow,” he’ll not
allow you to enter. Say “I am needle.” Let us try to serve Krsna.
He’ll give all intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam. Now go on. Take
rest.

Hari-sauri: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya-ho.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — October 9, 1977, Vrndavana

And here are some other relevant sources of information on Prabhupada’s views on the subject:

The devotees have been preaching here since mid-1973 when Atreya Rsi, who is Iranian, and Navayauvana prabhus came here to start a center. Srila Prabhupada originally advised them to preach to the upper class sections of society. Now that instruction is being wonderfully fulfilled by Parivrajakacarya Swami (who at the moment is suffering from a burst ear drum and is quite sick). A former hatha-yoga teacher, he developed a good connection to the royal family by teaching yoga to one of their distant relatives who was recovering from a drug dependency. He then began teaching the Shah’s nephew’s wife, Shanaz. This woman is close to the Shah’s wife, and through her he also came to know the queen. In fact, he is the first Westerner ever to enter the inner chambers of the royal palace. Now he preaches to the royal family’s friends and relatives, using his hatha-yoga expertise to
attract them to the process of bhakti-yoga. Prabhupada is extremely
pleased with his efforts.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => TD 4-1: Teheran, Iran

And

Atreya Rsi and Parivrajakacarya Swami began to chant, Parivrajakacarya
led.  Prabhupada sat and listened from his bed.  He asked for
Parivrajakacarya Swami to come forward to the bed.  As soon as he
knelt in front of him, Prabhupada stroked his head.

Prabhupada: Thank you so much.  You are a great rajarsi.  Do it very
nicely.  Don’t commit mistake.  Present the philosophy.  Make them
rajarsis. 

Parivrajakacarya Maharaja: These people knew every royal family in the world, and they are the richest of all of them.  They can change the whole world if we give the philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes, raja, and if you turn them to rsi, then our mission
is a success. Very good service. (To Atreya Rsi) Now you have started
your own business.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya, Prabhupada.  Business is not important, but it is a
medium for Krsna consciousness.  My secretary is already a devotee and the other people are becoming interested.  The goal is to have a Krsna conscious group working in society.

Prabhupada: Go very slowly.  Never mind.  You are young man.  Hmm. All right.  Go on chanting.  (After a few minutes to Parivrajakacarya) And you take care of your health.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => TKG: October 11

Regarding teaching other kinds of yoga. so that we may advertise an 8 or 9 day course for tourists, Prabhupada liked the idea. He said, “That will be very attractive. Other types of yoga are mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita. We can adopt that. Three or four men I can teach how to do it. Then you’ll be able to attract them. I can teach how to sit down, posture, asana, pranayama, without any difficulty. The yoga system as mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita we can take up , that will be bhakti-yoga, Use one. or two of the big rooms in the Gurukula building. I can teach the teachers how to practice.” You, Sarvabhavana, Dhananjaya and Mahavira were mentioned by Prabhupada as prospective teachers.

Ref. VedaBase => From: Jagadisha – SL_761222_A1

Unfortunately some monotheists, influenced by materialistic propaganda, have fallen into the trap of thinking that separating religion and politics is a good idea. These monotheist needs to awaken to the fact that…

1. Since God is all-loving He always desires the absence of all evil and suffering in all areas of our human lives.
2. Some political ideas brings evil and suffering into our human lives.
3. Therefore God desires the absence of such political ideas.

and…

1. Since God is all-loving He only desires what is good for us in all areas of our human lives.
2. Politics is an unavoidable area of our human lives.
3. Therefore God desires only what is good for us in the political area of our human lives.

God naturally dislikes any form of government which brings humanity misery. God does, therefore, not want any government which hinders the development of the inborn spiritual nature of all human beings. On the contrary, God wants politics and government surcharged with goodness in the form a absolute moral values and virtues like justice, charity, self-mastery, truthfulness, mercy etc. He also wants the physical, mental and spiritual protection of the citizens against the demonic forces that promotes illusion in the form of atheism, materialism, relativism and secularism and immorality in the form os selfishness, hate, anger, greed, lust etc.

Theocracy is therefore, obviously, the best possible form of government and to argue against theocracy is to go against God’s will.

“With me, the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?” [letter to William Graham, July 3rd, 1881]

If we humans are products of mutations and natural selection only then our cognitive faculties are aimed at survival and not necessarily truth. Therefore we can’t trust our cognitive faculties. After all, our brain sometimes uses illusions to cope with situations that threatens our mental and physical health. We might feel and think we have understood something to be true (like the idea on evolution), but it might just be our brains who keeps us in an illusion favorable for our survival. So Darwinism defeats itself: if it true, then we can’t know if it is true. Like C.S. Lewis said:

“If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes. Therefore all thoughts would be equally worthless. Therefore, naturalism is worthless. If it is true, then we can know no truths. It cuts its own throat.”

Can you see Krishna? He’s at the very end of this road. He’s waving at you!

On each side of the highway there is a ditch. We want to avoid driving into the ditches for an easy ride back to Krishna. But to avoid driving into these ditches we must be able to spot them, so how do they look?

The First Ditch

“…nor should one accept the rulings of devotional service which are more than what he can easily perform. ” [Nectar of Devotion, chapter 7]

Prabhupada explains that if we try to follow more rules than we can easily perform then we are sure to be negligent which is offensive and thus our progress towards pure devotional service is hindered. There is also another danger, namely that we will get frustrated because we are not able to live up to our ideals. Such frustration can make us give up Krishna Consciousness.

So don’t try to do more than you can!

The Second Ditch

“…to maintain material attachments, even after understanding so many instructions on this matter. ” [Nectar of Devotion, chapter 8]

As you have probably already recognized this is the last part of the tenth offense against the Holy Names. It basically says that we should not accept less rules and regulations than we can follow. If we are able to follow a specific standard of devotional service it is an offense to decide to follow a lower standard. 

So don’t follow less than you can!

Use Lights

If we are driving in the middle of the night and our lights breaks then we are more likely to drive into one of the ditches even though we know how they look. This breaking of lights might be compared to our distracted mind that, among other things, tries to convince our weak intelligence that we are so spiritually advanced that we can easily follow the highest standard of devotional service or that we are so fallen that we  need to follow a lower standard than we actually can. In this situation we need some lights that works. The best lights comes from the bona fide spiritual master:

om ajñāna timirāndhasya
jñānāñjana-śalākayā
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

“I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him.“

The lights of the spiritual master will keep us on the road so that we can gradually make progress towards our goal.

The idea of neither doing too much nor too little is universal. If we are training for a marathon and start our training by running too long and too fast we can’t train for the next couple of days due to pain. And if we do too little we will not reach the level of strength required to run the marathon. But we we do neither too much nor too little our strength will gradually increase to the desired level. In the same way, if we stay between neither too much nor too little in Krishna Consciousness our spiritual strength and love for Krishna will gradually increase.

I wish you a happy and safe ride back to Krishna!

A liberal devotee who is known as embracing democracy and free speech maintains a website and invites devotees from all over the globe to contribute. But he ends up being accused of exhibiting what is called liberal hypocrisy because he bans two devotees due to their somewhat conservative views. Liberal hypocrisy basically means that you on the one hand preach that we should allow everyone to voice his or her opinion while you on the other hand censor people whom you don’t agree with.

One of the banned devotees gets so frustrated in his attempts to persuade other ISKCON devotees that they should be as conservative as he is, that he manages to convince himself – contrary to Prabhupada’s desires – that it is alright to leave ISKCON due to what he sees as decadence in the organization. He thus ends up being accused of exhibiting “conservative hypocrisy”, because he on the one hand insists that everyone should be as conservative as he is in following the process while on the other hand he’s being so liberal towards himself that he goes against Prabhupada’s desire and leaves ISKCON.

So the liberal ends up being conservative and the conservative ends up being liberal?

What a mess we sometimes create! I would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. My suggestion is that we all cool down and think for a moment before we pick up the pen. Prabhupada said that we should cooperate and settle disputes with a cool head instead of acting spontaneously on our irrational impulses coming from our agitated minds. Otherwise our spiritual lives and ISKCON will be finished. 

Prabhupada:

“Yes. That is everywhere. Even in, in our society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, if there is no mutual cooperation, then it will fall down immediately. So as Rūpa Gosvāmī advises, the first thing is enthusiasm, utsāhān. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt…(aside:) Why Śyāmasundara is not here? Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅga ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. If you want actually to make progress in our devotional life, the utsāhān,enthusiasm, is the first thing. If you are lacking enthusiasm, then you should rest, instead of making too much agitation within the mind. The… If you cannot find out… Some, something has dropped in the water, in the river, you cannot see the things dropped within the water by agitating the water. Just stand still for sometimes. As soon as the water is settled up, you’ll see the things as they are. So as soon as our enthusiasm is agitated, it is better to sit down in any temple suitable and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of being disappointed. After all, we commit so many mistakes. That is human nature. To err is human. That is not fault. But try to rectify with cool head. That is required.”

“Suppose if somebody, if you say that “We are Kṛṣṇa conscious persons.” So one may challenge you, “First of all, explain what do you know about Kṛṣṇa?” That is quite natural. If you do not know about Kṛṣṇa, you have no right to say that “I belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.” You have not right to say. So your position is like that, simply if you have a tilaka and a kaṇṭhi, that does not mean that you belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Any cheater can do that. You must know the philosophy. If one challenges, you must reply. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung a song indicating these cheaters. He says, ei oto ek kalir cela(?). ”Here is a servant of Kali.” What kind of cela? Na te tilal golai mālā (?). ”He has got a tilaka and golai mālā, bās, that’s all.” He does not know what is the philosophy. If you do not know the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you simply mark your body with tilaka and kaṇṭhi, then you are not proper servant, you are not qualified. So tilaka, mala, is necessary. Just like a policeman. A bogus man, if he dresses like a policeman, he is not a policeman. He must know what is the police law, criminal law, who is to be punished, who is not to be punished, what is criminality, what is innocence. All these things he must know.”